H2 Fan Club

[ZIPPER]

Well, great. What does this vehicle do for you Zipper? Is there *any* utility to it, or do you just throw your money away for the fun of it?

Where to start!

I actully need somthing to haul my Travel Trailer and I also haul Heavy equipment parts sometimes as a side job in our family bussiness. We have room to seat all the kids (4 of them) and take the dog with us too.

Because it is a Diesel I should easily get 300,000 miles out of the engine so I shouldn't have to replace it anytime soon.

For the fun of it. - Yeah I love the horsepower and there are not alot of cars out there that can beat me off the line (I have a upgrade chip and after market pipes.) It drives like a dream and is very comfortable on those long trips. Last year I put over 5,000 Highway miles on it delivering parts after work. (which paid for the payments, insurance, gas and part of the mortgage)

The last truck I had was a 2WD Ford Diesel that only got 9 MPG and beelched smoke. This one is actually more sensible

[miftah]

Well then you have a use for it. You're doing something with it besides providing extremely ample protection to your groceries on the perilous twists and turns of Suburbia (Oh No! A Roundabout!). As far as daily use of it goes, you could probably use something more efficient for short-distance travel, but it would be ridiculous to expect someone to own two vehicles in your situation. In short, the complain isn't really about you. Though I suspect you couldn't give a shit less if it were. You have a certain fatherly pride about you.

[ZIPPER]

Well then you have a use for it. You're doing something with it besides providing extremely ample protection to your groceries on the perilous twists and turns of Suburbia (Oh No! A Roundabout!).

Lets put it this way, you will always find me in the back of the lot.

As far as daily use of it goes, you could probably use something more efficient for short-distance travel, but it would be ridiculous to expect someone to own two vehicles in your situation.

Lady J has a mid-sized car but it is always such a mess I refuse to ride in it

In short, the complain isn't really about you. Though I suspect you couldn't give a shit less if it were.

Probably ture

You have a certain fatherly pride about you.

He don't know me very well, do he Bio?

[Rocketdork]

OK, so pulling a boat out of an unimproved "boat launch" may be a reason to have a 4 wheel drive...although, choosing another boat launch does come to mind.

I have lived in the northwest most of my life, I have traveled the same roads as you...I haven't required 4 wheel drive to climb any hill. Alternate routes are commonly available. Having 4WD is not an excuse for driving in a fashion that doesn't make sense.

I once pulled a pickup up to a shop to work on it...with my VW rabbit. The hill was snow covered, steep and the 4wd pickup couldn't make it. My rabbit traversed the road with no problem, and managed to get the pickup where it needed to be. 4WD failed where a lighter, FWD car succeeded.

So zipper, the 4wd helps you stop? What about the brakes? Maybe having a vehicle that didn't weigh 7800 lbs would help you navigate the streets WITHOUT 4 wheel drive.

Admit it, there isn't any reason to have 4 wheel drive for MOST of the people that have it (myself included). Its about WANTS not NEEDS.

The same holds true with an SUV, most don't NEED one, they WANT one.

There are legitmate purposes for having both...I never argued any differently. Being wasteful is being wasteful, getting something without a genuine need is wasteful, the NEED for the thing makes it OK. We NEED semi's, we NEED busses, we NEED garbage trucks...is that an excuse to not improve the emissions and milage on these things? nope...they need to improve too.

BTW, diesels emit soot, but are lower in harmful emissions than Gas engines...and the generally get better milage, as you have pointed out. The emissions thing is even more true with the Common Rail Injection that many of the newer Diesel engines use.

[miftah]

You have a certain fatherly pride about you.

He don't know me very well, do he Bio?

Do I not? I was talking about your love for your truck.

[ZIPPER]

So zipper, the 4wd helps you stop? What about the brakes? Maybe having a vehicle that didn't weigh 7800 lbs would help you navigate the streets WITHOUT 4 wheel drive.

Yes the 4WD will help you stop in slick situations. Unless you are the type of driver who always comes to a stop with the brakes locked up, you always have grip on the road. In a automatic drive car, your transmission is always sending power to your axle, this is why when stoped in a hill you don't go backwards when releasing the brakes to go. On another note, I don't use my 4WD all the time when I am driving on snow packed roads. I shift out of it after moving and back into before coming to a stop. Being that are winters here are almost non-existant it is the intersections that are mostly covered in snow and ice from the cars stopped at them. Driving with the 4WD on while on dry pavment will try to rip the transfer case apart as it needs slippage to work properly.

Admit it, there isn't any reason to have 4 wheel drive for MOST of the people that have it (myself included). Its about WANTS not NEEDS.

I have used it many time's to get into places on construction sites when I may have a 2-ton peice of steel in the back and have to travel a new roadbed made up of 5inch round stone. But then like Miftah said...

In short, the complain isn't really about you.

Air conditioning also uses up extra gasoline and is not a necessary item on a veichle. Options are just that, and 4WD is just a option too!

[Rocketdork]

Yes the 4WD will help you stop in slick situations.

No, it won't, there is only so much traction available to use. The brakes can and will use all of it for you. You can come to a safer stop, in 2WD or 4WD by moving the vehicle into neutral and braking.

Air conditioning also uses up extra gasoline and is not a necessary item on a veichle. Options are just that, and 4WD is just a option too!

Actually that's not true. The increased drag of having the windows open makes it a wash as far as fuel economy goes. I have run a full tank of gas in each condition on a long trip...no significant change in milage. Making the assumption that you either have to have the AC on or the windows open for comfort, because we all know that driving with heat stroke is a bad thing.

[ZIPPER]

Yes the 4WD will help you stop in slick situations.

No, it won't, there is only so much traction available to use. The brakes can and will use all of it for you. You can come to a safer stop, in 2WD or 4WD by moving the vehicle into neutral and braking.

I stand corrected:

While 4WD and AWD may maximize traction better than 2WD, that doesn't necessarily translate into making it a safer vehicle. Oftentimes, drivers believe that because they can accelerate in snow just as quickly as on dry roads, they can do the same in terms of cornering and braking. On the contrary, 4WD and AWD do little to aid in cornering and nothing for braking ability on wet, snowy roads. Once moving, the physics of 2WD, 4WD, and AWD systems are pretty much the same. Rather than rely on AWD or 4WD, it's a better idea to think of them as an insurance policy that's there when you need it.

I went with this because all of my other 4WD veichles were sticks and when you downshifted you grabbed the road while slowing down.

Air conditioning also uses up extra gasoline and is not a necessary item on a veichle. Options are just that, and 4WD is just a option too!

Actually that's not true. The increased drag of having the windows open makes it a wash as far as fuel economy goes. I have run a full tank of gas in each condition on a long trip...no significant change in milage. Making the assumption that you either have to have the AC on or the windows open for comfort, because we all know that driving with heat stroke is a bad thing.

Sorry, I was more thinking about in-town travel. You won't get heat stroke if you used your cup holders.

[bio]

Ok... time to paraphrase this whole thread:

• If you own or want a SUV: They're good and serve a useful purpose
• If you don't own or want a SUV: They're evil, wasteful, the scourge of the road, and the driver has a really small penis.

So... depending on where you stand you can do one of the following things:

• Buy one, drive one, pay for the gas. But for the love of all that's good and pure, drive like you have more than two brain cells floating around in half a quart of diet cola!
• Walk everywhere, wear hemp jewelry, hug a tree or two on the way to work

Or did I over-simplify?

[miftah]

Just a touch. And you've been known to hug a tree or two, depending on whether or not its in your front yard.