H2 Fan Club

Pigman · Post by **Pigman** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 2:55 pm

miftah wrote:Piggy, I'm not advocating legislation and I think it would be a bad idea if it were introduced. I would be opposed to it. I think if people seriously believe they have a need for these vehicles, then they should have access to them. I think some people buy them because they're compensating for something else. Something profoundly smaller.

But, actually, yeah. I'd like to see fewer semi's on the road too. I wouldn't legislate it, but I'd like to see it. In fact, I'd like to see a separate highway system for commercial shipping vehicles, to reduce the risk of them. I would also like to see legislation limiting the number of trailers on one cab. If you need three trailers, you need to go ahead and hire a train. I'm talking to you DHL.

Actually, I was referring to legislation already in place. I was thinking about traffic laws, insurance requirements, police enforcement.. that kind of thing... not legislation banning SUVs... for the record... I would never want a SUV and agree that it represents a substantial personal greed position both in purchase cost and threat (actual or percieved) to the rest of us. I just am concerned with a slippery slope of Government intrusion. It does bug me that these beasts are given a pass on many of the MPG and other requirements that other personal vehicles are made to comply with.

AND agree that some owners compensate little dicks with big cars!

dribbles · Post by **dribbles** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 2:56 pm

actually, it depends which SUV. something to do with the weight distrobution makes them really easy to flip over. saw a practical demonstration with a stunt man. will look it up again sometime.

so the moral is RAM then as fast as you can, swerve and DIE. no sharp turns either people.

Pigman · Post by **Pigman** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 2:57 pm

"Ban normal cars for a Motorcycle? Just one question, what about winter?"

Ya ... then we need our 4X4's ... but my little 4X4 Ranger should do the job as well as a stupid HUMMER!

Rocketdork · Post by **Rocketdork** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:08 pm

Pigman wrote:Ya ... then we need our 4X4's ... but my little 4X4 Ranger should do the job as well as a stupid HUMMER!

But you DON'T need 4 wheel drive in the winter...

I have live 95% of my life in the northwest...lived through some tough winters...92 comes to mind. I have never driven a 4 wheel drive vehicle of ANY kind in the snow...ever.

I can say with pride that I have never had an accident in the snow. If you drive like a sane person, you won't either.

4 wheel drive just isn't necessary on the road. You'll never convince me otherwise, especially in Spokane.

Post by **eddiecanuck** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:34 pm

Rocketdork wrote:The won't carry anything well except people, you want to carry a bunch of 2x4's and some sheets of drywall? Not in an SUV, you'll damage the leather seats.

Agreed, for things like that a truck is the way to go. But what about that long trip in adverse weather with a lot of luggage, kids car seats, toys, presents for Xmas? SUV seems like a pretty good rig for that. Has the 4 wheel drive plus the room for luggage and people.

I don't expect to change anyone's opinion, RD you are against them and that's cool. I'm just glad to see we are having a civilized debate without resorting to personal attacks

(damn, I didn't just jinx us did I??)

bugfreezer · Post by **bugfreezer** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:41 pm

miftah wrote:I'd like to see fewer semi's on the road too. I wouldn't legislate it, but I'd like to see it. In fact, I'd like to see a separate highway system for commercial shipping vehicles, to reduce the risk of them. I would also like to see legislation limiting the number of trailers on one cab. If you need three trailers, you need to go ahead and hire a train. I'm talking to you DHL.

Now you're talking! Biggest mistake we made was knocking down the rail system, IMO.

Post by **bio** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:58 pm

Rocketdork wrote:4 wheel drive just isn't necessary on the road. You'll never convince me otherwise, especially in Spokane.

So a 2WD Tahoe or Expedition is ok then? (and yes... 4WD is an option... not base on most SUV's).

Rocketdork · Post by **Rocketdork** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 4:07 pm

eddiecanuck wrote:But what about that long trip in adverse weather with a lot of luggage, kids car seats, toys, presents for Xmas? SUV seems like a pretty good rig for that. Has the 4 wheel drive plus the room for luggage and people.

Don't need the 4 wheel drive, like I said before. A van has more room, and is built to haul people, toys, car seats with room for luggage. It gets better mileage along the way too. Not as dangerous to other people on the road...they come in 4 wheel drive too, if you insist on having it.

The one justification for SUV's that I can come up with is when you need to haul more than 4 people AND tow a heavy trailer.

My truck will comfortably seat 4 (even 5) people and its towing capacity kicks most SUV's ass.

4 wheel drive is at its best during acceleration. It doesn't really do much for you going down the road, and nothing for you stopping. I have yet to witness an accident where lack of acceleration was the problem. Breaking on the other hand, I have seen lots of accidents were that was the issue, and 4 wheel drive doesn NOTHING for you there. Fundamentally, 4 wheel drive does nothing but get you to accelerate faster, and thereby reach the accident in less time.

Rocketdork · Post by **Rocketdork** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 4:10 pm

bio wrote:So a 2WD Tahoe or Expedition is ok then? (and yes... 4WD is an option... not base on most SUV's).

Nope, for all the other reasons that SUV's are wrong.

The 4 wheel drive is a side argument...it does tend to inspire too much confidence, witness all the 4 wheel drive SUV's in the ditch on the first day it snows.

Now, make the SUV a hybrid, and you are getting closer to acceptance in my mind.

Yeah, I'd like to see it like Europe, where most of the cars are small econoboxes that run diesel fuel. Even the "lorries" are smaller than they are in the US.

ironpants · Post by **ironpants** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 4:20 pm

I still have to give GM props for calling a vehicle a "hummer".

Now that I think of it, I want a hummer

Pigman · Post by **Pigman** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 5:16 pm

Rocketdork wrote:
Pigman wrote:Ya ... then we need our 4X4's ... but my little 4X4 Ranger should do the job as well as a stupid HUMMER!
But you DON'T need 4 wheel drive in the winter...

I have live 95% of my life in the northwest...lived through some tough winters...92 comes to mind. I have never driven a 4 wheel drive vehicle of ANY kind in the snow...ever.

I can say with pride that I have never had an accident in the snow. If you drive like a sane person, you won't either.

4 wheel drive just isn't necessary on the road. You'll never convince me otherwise, especially in Spokane.

Well ... next time we launch my boat on the wet mud of a boat launchI have to use, I would LOVE to see you pull the trailer out with any 2 wheel vehicle of your choice.... I have also HAD to use the 4X4 mode driving up certain hills in the winter... 2 wheel just won't make it where my family lives out in the 7 mile area. Perhaps you think everyone drives on graded and sanded fairly flat paved roads all over Spokane county?

bugfreezer · Post by **bugfreezer** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 5:29 pm

And if my wife's grandparents had a 4X4, my lawn would not have been carved up when they temporarily parked their 5th wheel there.

ZIPPER · Post by **ZIPPER** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 5:32 pm

Than by all means my truck should be grouped in with any Hummer.

I am over 25 feet long with 4WD and a large 7.3 Turbo Diesel that can get anywhere beteewn 14 to 20 MPG. My exhaust fumes are far worse than any that the SUV's put out. It rarely ever sees dirt road and I have yet to take my Travel Trailer anywhere. With the trailer hooked up I exceed 50 feet of road surface and weigh in well over 5 1/2 tons. My braking distance is far more than any Hummer, yet I can still seat 6 people (1 more than the Hummer). With the canopy I have locked rear storage like any SUV. This is my daily driver with atleast 20 miles per day.

When I am out driving I never get the finger and yet I am a acceptable form of transportation

BTW - RD. My truck wieghs in a 7800#. In the winter on a snow packed road the 4WD not only gives me the traction to take off but when it downshifts when slowing down it also grabs the road to bring this monster to a safe and straight stop. With a lot of the centered weight being over the front axel from the engine the 4WD is more like a FWD when engaged. I feel that this is not only a safety feature for myself but the others on the road too!

Pigman · Post by **Pigman** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 5:36 pm

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Post by **miftah** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 5:38 pm

Well, great. What does this vehicle do for you Zipper? Is there *any* utility to it, or do you just throw your money away for the fun of it?