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How about our troops just shooting the shit out of whom ever is unlucky enough to drive by?

WTF!?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnyjH5wusqs&embed=1[/youtube]

....

Gaah, just wrong. They commented on a sniper trying to whack 'em, but those two cars Mid-Vid had nothing to do with it, I bet.

I wonder how many of troops will come back with PTSD and wander the streets as they try to cope with their actions once the adrenaline wears off....

I don't divorce the soldiers from responsibility, and certainly many go into the military because they have violence issues, but when you extend tours the way they have and conduct backdoor drafts, this shit is inevitable. And the longer we're there, with no real accomplishable objective apart from keep our finger in the hole in the dike, you bet your ass this is going to continue to happen. And by the time we leave the region our relationship with the Middle East will be irreparably damaged.

Ok, I'll bite, what am I supposed to be sick about? A video taken without context of marines killing people. They're friggin marines, what do you want them to do!? This is their friggin job, if you managed to have a day where you doubled your productivity at work while on video, you'd probably be a bit elated too.

On top of that, all we've got here is a few seconds of video out of context and three people, whom I have great respect for, managed to criticise those involeved to an extent I would not bear.

I've got a quick question for all three of you; when was the last time you were in a situation where you had to fire a deadly weapon at another person?

We know nothing of the situation, we know nothing of the incomming firepower. We know that people died.

A few years ago, repeatedly, I was entrusted to deliver firing coordinates to a number of targets in the same exact vecinity. All of these targets were highly valuable military or government targets. More people than I care to think about, who had nothing to do with the situation, died on those runs. But the targets were valuable.

These guys are something different, the're working in one of the most violent sectors in the world, and they're trying to put it back together again. Worse yet, most of them are under silly "don't fire until fired uppon" standing orders.

How dare you criticize given this video, I can assure you, you've no idea. When these patriots come home, I'll give them a pat on the back for a job well done no matter how silly the government was that sent them there. They've given their all and there's more to be done, let them fininsh the damned job.

Pants, I don't think you're arguing with us anymore. If you got a problem with my referring to people going into the military because they have violence issues, keep in mind that I was referring to my cousin the marine for example, who I know a bit better than you. Now that he's broken up with his former fiance, he's dying to get back to Iraq so he can shoot his gun some more. Ask him. He'll tell you all about it.

And just because I support the troops doesn't mean I give 'em a blank check. All the well-wishing and nationalism you can cram into a post here does nothing to eliminate the real events that happen all the time. Rapes, rampages, murders. They do happen.

I condemn what I can see. Do I recognize that I'm not omniscient and that maybe I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about? Sure. If you can get off your almighty fucking soapbox long enough to do the same, I'll be happy to have a civilized conversation about just what finishing that damned job entails. No one, least of all the generals, seem to have a clue what the mission is much less what it takes to get it done.

In the meantime, don't fucking patronize me. I don't have to kill someone to know that it deserves a bit more reverence and restraint that what I saw on that video. I've seen more solemn faces playing Battlefield. And if I just don't get it because I've never been in that situation, well, you do math there. I think you're smart enough to handle the deduction yourself.

My comments about the PTSD were not intended as calling a curse upon, nor a indictment on the troops (or the war for that matter), but more a statement of how stuff like that affects people. I can think of two non-homeless ex-vietnam types who would not talk about their experiences; one of these chaps was still rather jumpy. I would not for choice kill anyone - if I had to to protect someone, I would - but I am not naive enough to think that I would emerge unscathed mentally and spiritually, whatever my physical state, even if it was a "righteous shoot".

The "wrong" part was my gut reaction, I will admit. I do recognize that the troops were bleeding off adrenaline post strike. And when the possible non-coms blundered into the fracas, they were in the wrong place at the wrong time, and intellectually I know that was akin to walking up to a polar bear while it was stalking a seal while unarmed.

Yes, if I were actually in the situation, I'd have probably acted in a similar way though I would hope I would not have de-personalized the targets (oops, I did it anyway) as much as the troops in the vid did (that might be a part of the training - I was never infantry). I just would not come back the same person, and whatever the case may be, those that died probably had loved ones, and hopes and dreams that may not have been the same as the jihadis. Gone forever.

The taking of life, even when necessary and justifiable, is still a serious thing, and marks the taker as well as the taken and their families.

I'll tell you what should make you sick.

That this video was shot at all, that it was then posted to a place where the world can see it.

Ask yourself why the video was taken? Was it for some noble purpose? Was it to show the world the horrors of war? or that war is truly hell? Was it to show that people are dying in the conflict and to bring that home and make a point? Was it to show that sometimes (presumably) innocent people die sometimes?

No. I don't think it was.

Is it normal for a soldier to celebrate his survival in a situation like this...according to the Vets that I have talked with anyway. This celebration is the source of their conflict now. How do they reconcile the euphoric killer that they were with the person they are today?

I believe the reason they film stuff like this is to fuel their masturbatory fantasies when they are out of the conflict. It is clear to me that they were not celebrating their survival, but rather, they were celebrating their KILLING. YEAH BITCH! I LIT THAT FUCKER UP! did you get that on video? They've come to enjoy the very serious business of taking another's life. They didn't shoot this film to prove that war is hell, that innocent people are dying...they did it to REMEMBER THE PLEASURE they had that day and further to share it with the world.

So, I guess its up to us to decide if we should be sick about this or not. I find it terribly offensive and generally choose not to watch these legalized snuff films.

So ask yourself, was there some noble purpose to this video, or did it serve a more prurient purpose. I find myself unable to find anything noble about it.

ironpants wrote:I've got a quick question for all three of you; when was the last time you were in a situation where you had to fire a deadly weapon at another person?

Back in my youth, I served. I was a 91A10 Combat Medic in the US Army. I wasn't delivering firing solutions, I was following the infantry on the front lines.

I also have first hand knowledge of what a bullet does when it hits someone.

Yes, we don't know why there were in this fight, and we don't know the circumstances that caused them to open up on the other two vehicles. We do, however, get a front row seat in seeing the soldiers laugh and joke about killing like they're playing a video game.

One solder yells at another to quit firing on his line. He wants that kill.

This is some serious shit... how do you integrate back into society when killing becomes fun?

You took the words right out of my mouth, Rocketdork.

bio wrote:This is some serious shit... how do you integrate back into society when killing becomes fun?

Ask someone in the mental health fields. Vets aren't getting what they deserve out of our government (You and me.) Their benefits have continued to dwindle, due to our elected representatives making some hard cuts.

Not to enter my Hyperbolic chamber, but the same folks are saying that questioning any of this, is not supporting the troops, and is costing their lives.

Can we have some communism now? Maybe some facism? Maybe we need to spend a good 50 years in a far worse, jack-booted place. It might spur some concern for freedoms beyond the pocket book.

Encap wrote:the same folks are saying that questioning any of this, is not supporting the troops, and is costing their lives.

Ugh.