sheep who sleep WAKE Up!
sheep who sleep WAKE Up!
I know several AMERICANS read this blog. I wish all the hear what I am saying. I do NOT expect any of you to do a thing if you wish not to. If I hear one more so called American who is taking off thier shoes at an airport say " well its for our own safety, besides that what could we do about it?" I beg all who read this to know this is still America despite the events of 911! We all have a voice, I sure as hell know you all can read and write. So write the people who have been elected to represent you as an American. Tell them what you feel is wrong in your life and this country, tell them that you are tired of being treated like a criminal when you have done nothing wrong! We have a voice for christs sakes, PLEASE use it. WRITE LETTERS, CALL WASHINGTON DC, stop this madness, or live forever in a country where your rights are being very quickly erroded away. Thank you all for taking the time to read this. And remember your voice will and can not ever be ignored in America, it is what makes this country the greatest country on earth!
Good for you, thanks for being an Ameican! I suppose if someone said you cant fly while wearing underwear you would do that too? Maybe you can just do as you are asked while asking no questions I never have, I never will. I felt safe flying before 9-11 and I do not feel any safer flying after 9-11 as a matter of fact prior to 9-11 I do not recall seeing men armed with automatic weapons in the nations airports. But if you feel more safe with someone standing by at the readiy to fire at will more power to ya. I sure as hell can not denie you your opinion any more than you can ever denie me mine. I will finish with this food for thought.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
So be a good little boy and do as you are told without asking why OK!
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
So be a good little boy and do as you are told without asking why OK!
You've made it clear that you think the security precautions are a violation of your rights, but I see nothing in your statement that lends any sort of credence or support to your position.
Perhaps you'd do us the favor of explaining why you so vehemently oppose increased airport security with more than an "I shouldn't have to because I'm an American" retort.
Also, stating "I suppose if someone said you cant fly while wearing underwear you would do that too?" is a bit like the reasoning that leads people to say "Well, if we allow gay people to get married, soon someone will want to marry their dog!"
It is very easy to use a quote from a time that did not know the struggles we face today. If Ben Franklin were alive today I'm fairly certain that he would not take issue with removing his shoes at the airport. You cannot use a response to a completely different situation to defend your poorly crafted response to this one.
It's almost laughable that I was not surprised to see you resort to name calling when someone disagreed with your stance. Almost laughable yes, but still pretty firmly seated in sad.
The only thing worse than leading by fear is leading by propaganda and a ludicrous extrapolation of an event or decision.
Perhaps you'd do us the favor of explaining why you so vehemently oppose increased airport security with more than an "I shouldn't have to because I'm an American" retort.
Also, stating "I suppose if someone said you cant fly while wearing underwear you would do that too?" is a bit like the reasoning that leads people to say "Well, if we allow gay people to get married, soon someone will want to marry their dog!"
It is very easy to use a quote from a time that did not know the struggles we face today. If Ben Franklin were alive today I'm fairly certain that he would not take issue with removing his shoes at the airport. You cannot use a response to a completely different situation to defend your poorly crafted response to this one.
It's almost laughable that I was not surprised to see you resort to name calling when someone disagreed with your stance. Almost laughable yes, but still pretty firmly seated in sad.
The only thing worse than leading by fear is leading by propaganda and a ludicrous extrapolation of an event or decision.
Diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggie" while looking for a bigger stick
I hardly consider having to take my shoes off for a routine and quite effective screening method (x-ray as well as bomb chem.) and not being allowed to carry a possible weapon on board an airplane in this day and age an "essential liberty."
Your stance is understandable, you ask "how far is too far?" however your argument lacks any real thought or position. You simply say, "This is what I believe, and you're welcome to believe what you would like to believe, but I reserve the right to call you names just the same."
I say this: we have not yet gone too far. When I feel that my liberties are being compromised then I will tell you. Also for the record, Ben Franklin shocked the hell out of himself several times with his little kite experiment so I ofter this caution: No one is 100% right all the time. Quoting someone else is about as non-free thinking as I can imagine.
If you'd like to mix words with me, I will of course hear you out. So let me start you off.
Why do you feel airlines should not be allowed to x-ray your shoes or require to leave lighters and knives at home? You said you felt safe flying before 9/11, well of course you did, that was before two planes got crashed into buildings. Since then, how many planes have been crashed into buildings? (I realize the logic is simplistic, but taken in context with the first question it is not so much a statement of "the ends justify the means" which I do not subscribe to, rather it is saying "what has been done has been done with reason and without depriving so many liberties as you might think.")
Your stance is understandable, you ask "how far is too far?" however your argument lacks any real thought or position. You simply say, "This is what I believe, and you're welcome to believe what you would like to believe, but I reserve the right to call you names just the same."
I say this: we have not yet gone too far. When I feel that my liberties are being compromised then I will tell you. Also for the record, Ben Franklin shocked the hell out of himself several times with his little kite experiment so I ofter this caution: No one is 100% right all the time. Quoting someone else is about as non-free thinking as I can imagine.
If you'd like to mix words with me, I will of course hear you out. So let me start you off.
Why do you feel airlines should not be allowed to x-ray your shoes or require to leave lighters and knives at home? You said you felt safe flying before 9/11, well of course you did, that was before two planes got crashed into buildings. Since then, how many planes have been crashed into buildings? (I realize the logic is simplistic, but taken in context with the first question it is not so much a statement of "the ends justify the means" which I do not subscribe to, rather it is saying "what has been done has been done with reason and without depriving so many liberties as you might think.")
http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/hr3162.htmlthis is a link to the very reason I am opposed to America political policy. It is the Patriot Act of 2001. It is a President who feels he can write into law any thing he wishes so, it is about American attitudes towards Muslims in America.
I have in no way called anyone any names what so ever. Unless of course calling you an American is name calling. Its also about Americans buying lock stock and barrle that America invaded a soverign nation without cause, and that people believe that Sadam Hussain was a threat to us in America. Hate to inform all who read this that ALL of the 9-11 hijackers were of Saudi Arabia decent. Yet your and my federal tax dollars are paying for Capital Police in DC to protect thier Embasy. If America is about fredom of religion then why the outcry when a member of the US House Of Representitives took his oath on a Quoran owned by Thomas Jefferson? We as an American socioty are becoming facist in our thinking. I know everyone who reads this is smart enough not to fall into that trap. And as I have stated in past replys these are just my thoughts. I am not slamming anyone, nor what they chose to do. Feel free to do as you wish. I do. Including speaking my mind on privacy issues in America as well as useless policies such as removing ones shoes at an airprt. you want to kill people on an airplane NO ONE WILL stop you from doing so period. If you do not believe this, the next time you fly just kick a window out at 33000 feet, or an emergency door and have your terroist pals start booting people out the open hole! Security os a state of mind. There are 140000 tropps in Iraq. I ask anyone is Iraq secure? I will never give up my libertys period..... thats my main message. Yet so many are willing to do so in the name, and under the umberlla of SECURITY! Thats my whole point.
I have in no way called anyone any names what so ever. Unless of course calling you an American is name calling. Its also about Americans buying lock stock and barrle that America invaded a soverign nation without cause, and that people believe that Sadam Hussain was a threat to us in America. Hate to inform all who read this that ALL of the 9-11 hijackers were of Saudi Arabia decent. Yet your and my federal tax dollars are paying for Capital Police in DC to protect thier Embasy. If America is about fredom of religion then why the outcry when a member of the US House Of Representitives took his oath on a Quoran owned by Thomas Jefferson? We as an American socioty are becoming facist in our thinking. I know everyone who reads this is smart enough not to fall into that trap. And as I have stated in past replys these are just my thoughts. I am not slamming anyone, nor what they chose to do. Feel free to do as you wish. I do. Including speaking my mind on privacy issues in America as well as useless policies such as removing ones shoes at an airprt. you want to kill people on an airplane NO ONE WILL stop you from doing so period. If you do not believe this, the next time you fly just kick a window out at 33000 feet, or an emergency door and have your terroist pals start booting people out the open hole! Security os a state of mind. There are 140000 tropps in Iraq. I ask anyone is Iraq secure? I will never give up my libertys period..... thats my main message. Yet so many are willing to do so in the name, and under the umberlla of SECURITY! Thats my whole point.
Mudflap do you really believe tha Ben Franklin did not face the same dangers we face today?
As for quoting others, whom ever wrote that .I ask you this question.......do you, or have you ever said the pledge of allegiance? Ever say the lords prayer? If so I would say you are quoting someone elses words>.
As for quoting others, whom ever wrote that .I ask you this question.......do you, or have you ever said the pledge of allegiance? Ever say the lords prayer? If so I would say you are quoting someone elses words>.
Reciting an anthem or a prayer is not the same as quoting, now you're just obfuscating. You are not using someone else's words to state how you feel, you are spouting off rhetoric because you cannot be bothered to think on your own. You shout nothing but nonsense in the name of liberty.
No you have switched gears; first the argument was about personal liberty NOW it is about our involvement in Iraq. Related but different topics. Start a new thread if you want to protest the war in Iraq, or at the very least expand on and complete your original point before moving on to something else please.
Again I ask you, what liberties have YOU given up? How exactly is submitting to screening at an airport violating yours or anyone's rights? You are in building protected by people who's job it is to be suspicious of EVERYONE. You submit to screening by entering. If you don't like it you have the right to drive. (Which for the record is not as safe as flying, still.)
So all you want to do reiterate for the umpteenth time that you will not give up any personal liberties? Well good for you. You can stop beating a dead horse now.
As for "name calling" you have framed this thread with them. You titled it "sheep who sleep WAKE up" so you are calling anyone who disagrees with you a sheep. Then you went on to call me a "good little boy" who always does what I am told. That sir, is name calling.
No you have switched gears; first the argument was about personal liberty NOW it is about our involvement in Iraq. Related but different topics. Start a new thread if you want to protest the war in Iraq, or at the very least expand on and complete your original point before moving on to something else please.
Again I ask you, what liberties have YOU given up? How exactly is submitting to screening at an airport violating yours or anyone's rights? You are in building protected by people who's job it is to be suspicious of EVERYONE. You submit to screening by entering. If you don't like it you have the right to drive. (Which for the record is not as safe as flying, still.)
So all you want to do reiterate for the umpteenth time that you will not give up any personal liberties? Well good for you. You can stop beating a dead horse now.
As for "name calling" you have framed this thread with them. You titled it "sheep who sleep WAKE up" so you are calling anyone who disagrees with you a sheep. Then you went on to call me a "good little boy" who always does what I am told. That sir, is name calling.
Furthermore, this statement goes to show that you cannot be bothered with scrolling up (the one page of the thread so far, mind you) to determine who is speaking/typing to you. There have only been two people to reply to you. You opinions seem to matter more to you then those of others, you're not interested in discussion (the general modus operandi of web-forums) but rather in stepping on a soap box.Tom wrote: As for quoting others, whom ever wrote that .I ask you this question.......do you, or have you ever said the pledge of allegiance? Ever say the lords prayer? If so I would say you are quoting someone elses words>.
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Rocketdork
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you are correct rocket hehehe.......... So I wwwill no longer spout my retoric here 
besides that and since everyone loves a great quote
"Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." LOL hahaha Thanks everyone for the interesting responsed though! Just confirms why I live in Alaska even more. No click the link below and have a nice drink and relax!
http://www.cockolada.de/
besides that and since everyone loves a great quote "Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." LOL hahaha Thanks everyone for the interesting responsed though! Just confirms why I live in Alaska even more. No click the link below and have a nice drink and relax!
http://www.cockolada.de/
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miftah
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For the record Tom, if you stick around, I think you'll notice that most people here are open to a little soapboxing now and again. Bio and I are probably the worst offenders, and we're moderators.
However, the difference here is that if you want to soapbox here, you have to be open to a conversation about it. One of the things I've learned about arguing politics on the web is that every issue has at least two sides, more often more than that, and most issues have more than one "right" way of looking at them. You want to convince people of anything, you have to be able to see an issue from their side of it, without being dismissive.
Bottom line it for you? Tolerance. You can say and talk about anything here, so long as you're capable of putting up with and respecting those who disagree with you. By listening to you, and replying to you, this is the same treatment they are giving you.
Certainly telling everyone to suck a dick and relax is probably not the best route to promoting a healthy discourse. It should matter to you that this board swings pretty decidedly to the left on most issues, and you still managed to piss people off. Rhetoric is bread and butter here. You just need to make sure you keep your butter knife sharp.
However, the difference here is that if you want to soapbox here, you have to be open to a conversation about it. One of the things I've learned about arguing politics on the web is that every issue has at least two sides, more often more than that, and most issues have more than one "right" way of looking at them. You want to convince people of anything, you have to be able to see an issue from their side of it, without being dismissive.
Bottom line it for you? Tolerance. You can say and talk about anything here, so long as you're capable of putting up with and respecting those who disagree with you. By listening to you, and replying to you, this is the same treatment they are giving you.
Certainly telling everyone to suck a dick and relax is probably not the best route to promoting a healthy discourse. It should matter to you that this board swings pretty decidedly to the left on most issues, and you still managed to piss people off. Rhetoric is bread and butter here. You just need to make sure you keep your butter knife sharp.
"Fear of the bee means the honey is for me" - Jhonn Balance
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Rocketdork
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I guess that Miftah made my point for me. Blog posts are where you can spout your rhetoric and not have to worry about somebody disagreeing with you. If they do, you just delete their comment.
This forum is a place where, more often than not, discourse happens. Sometimes very heated discourse. In spite of the spirited debates, all of us have respect for the others.
I find it funny that the people that scream "freedom of speech" and you can't take away our rights really mean, "*I* have freedom of speech, and you can't take away *my* rights." In many cases you'll find that those very same people will not tolerate others freedom to speak, and really aren't interested in protecting anybodies rights but their own perceived rights.
At the end of the day, each of us has our own opinions about air travel, the war, and many other things. Being a true American involves giving the respect to those that don't have the same opinion as you, and not only allowing them to speak it, but encouraging them to do so.
There is nothing more American that speaking your mind AND letting others speak theirs!
I travel to Japan at the end of the week, I'll be taking my shoes off at the security screening, why? Traveling to Japan by boat really doesn't seem to be a good alternative. Do I feel safer because everybody took off their shoes? Not even a little bit, but never-the-less, I'll do it.
Its one of the many prices you have to pay for the *privelidge* to fly. Don't be fooled, flying is not a *right*. Neither is driving or a myriad of other things that folks call their *right*.
Telling me to go suck on a cockolada is just declassé.
Remember folks, "fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity!"
This forum is a place where, more often than not, discourse happens. Sometimes very heated discourse. In spite of the spirited debates, all of us have respect for the others.
I find it funny that the people that scream "freedom of speech" and you can't take away our rights really mean, "*I* have freedom of speech, and you can't take away *my* rights." In many cases you'll find that those very same people will not tolerate others freedom to speak, and really aren't interested in protecting anybodies rights but their own perceived rights.
At the end of the day, each of us has our own opinions about air travel, the war, and many other things. Being a true American involves giving the respect to those that don't have the same opinion as you, and not only allowing them to speak it, but encouraging them to do so.
There is nothing more American that speaking your mind AND letting others speak theirs!
I travel to Japan at the end of the week, I'll be taking my shoes off at the security screening, why? Traveling to Japan by boat really doesn't seem to be a good alternative. Do I feel safer because everybody took off their shoes? Not even a little bit, but never-the-less, I'll do it.
Its one of the many prices you have to pay for the *privelidge* to fly. Don't be fooled, flying is not a *right*. Neither is driving or a myriad of other things that folks call their *right*.
Telling me to go suck on a cockolada is just declassé.
Remember folks, "fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity!"
"A man without a woman is like a statue without pigeons"
Telling me to go suck on a cockolada is just declassé.
It was a fricking joke! Besides that I thought it funny that the Germans have created such a drink. I did not say go suck on one.........I see that people in this "forum" tend to twist words.........I said nothing about "freedom" or "speech" I started out by being disgusted that people are willing to take of parts of the wardrobe to fly PERIOD! Then the patriot act , which is not even close to being patriotic! And for the record folks I have known Tone for almost 20 years .....I am familiar with his humor.......and yes I plan on sticking around. I have said " I will not deny anyone an opinion" what part of that is no one understanding? I was an interesting response to the few words I have written I will say that. And yes I feel this country in changing and for the worse. Today’s Arabs/Muslims are yesterdays black people, Fascism is rampant”
Fascism, the more it considers and observes the future and the development of humanity quite apart from political considerations of the moment, believes neither in the possibility nor the utility of perpetual peace. It thus repudiates the doctrine of Pacifism -- born of a renunciation of the struggle and an act of cowardice in the face of sacrifice. War alone brings up to its highest tension of human energy and puts the stamp of nobility upon the peoples who have courage to meet it. All other trials are substitutes, which never really put men into the position where they have to make the great decision -- the alternative of life or death.... As long as the people of America agree that killing people is a great and noble thing, you will hear me speak out about it.....hence forever! And if one wants to talk about being "declassé" your quote of “fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity!"Is about as déclassé" as it gets. You live in America or a place that is at peace or you would never have said that. Being passé' about peace, I feel, is done by people who have never had to endure watching members of their own family being blown away into a bloody mass of tissue and bone! So this will be my last word on this topic! I will thus lighten up and speak of things not quite as controversial as peace, war, or politics; they seem not to make good bedfellows LOL!
It was a fricking joke! Besides that I thought it funny that the Germans have created such a drink. I did not say go suck on one.........I see that people in this "forum" tend to twist words.........I said nothing about "freedom" or "speech" I started out by being disgusted that people are willing to take of parts of the wardrobe to fly PERIOD! Then the patriot act , which is not even close to being patriotic! And for the record folks I have known Tone for almost 20 years .....I am familiar with his humor.......and yes I plan on sticking around. I have said " I will not deny anyone an opinion" what part of that is no one understanding? I was an interesting response to the few words I have written I will say that. And yes I feel this country in changing and for the worse. Today’s Arabs/Muslims are yesterdays black people, Fascism is rampant”
Fascism, the more it considers and observes the future and the development of humanity quite apart from political considerations of the moment, believes neither in the possibility nor the utility of perpetual peace. It thus repudiates the doctrine of Pacifism -- born of a renunciation of the struggle and an act of cowardice in the face of sacrifice. War alone brings up to its highest tension of human energy and puts the stamp of nobility upon the peoples who have courage to meet it. All other trials are substitutes, which never really put men into the position where they have to make the great decision -- the alternative of life or death.... As long as the people of America agree that killing people is a great and noble thing, you will hear me speak out about it.....hence forever! And if one wants to talk about being "declassé" your quote of “fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity!"Is about as déclassé" as it gets. You live in America or a place that is at peace or you would never have said that. Being passé' about peace, I feel, is done by people who have never had to endure watching members of their own family being blown away into a bloody mass of tissue and bone! So this will be my last word on this topic! I will thus lighten up and speak of things not quite as controversial as peace, war, or politics; they seem not to make good bedfellows LOL!
Please no one tell this man that I live in Alaska... SHIT!
Well regardless of what you meant, the cockalada comment had implied meaning. You say you weren't intending it like that but well... it sounded like it. As far as who is gauche well, none of us are royalty so I wouldn't worry too much about that.
Anyway, I invite you to look up racism and fascism, because they are different. But as far as discrimination against a race or religion, well sorry but there aren't a lot of white people crashing planes into buildings. But for the record, I have to take my shoes off too and I am as white as they get. So what? I still don't think it is going too far, honestly I think it should have been required BEFORE 9/11.
The patriot act; yeah I agree the name isn't fitting and it certainly has the potential to be abused, however so do many laws yet they are not. That is the great thing about our government, there are systems in place to provide balance.
Well regardless of what you meant, the cockalada comment had implied meaning. You say you weren't intending it like that but well... it sounded like it. As far as who is gauche well, none of us are royalty so I wouldn't worry too much about that.
Anyway, I invite you to look up racism and fascism, because they are different. But as far as discrimination against a race or religion, well sorry but there aren't a lot of white people crashing planes into buildings. But for the record, I have to take my shoes off too and I am as white as they get. So what? I still don't think it is going too far, honestly I think it should have been required BEFORE 9/11.
The patriot act; yeah I agree the name isn't fitting and it certainly has the potential to be abused, however so do many laws yet they are not. That is the great thing about our government, there are systems in place to provide balance.
